In our first Podcast in English, we have two guests from Cube Group with us: Anna Gromańska (Publishing and Innovations Director, Cube Group) and Marcin Michalski (Board Member, Cube Group). In their chat with Swee Huang Hustedt Teo (Marketing Manager, Ingenious Technologies), they speak of what skills marketers need nowadays, and the prevalent need to educate the market when it comes to seeing affiliates as a relationship with a partner, cultivating the partnership through fairer attribution by moving away from last-click.
#Partnermarketing Podcast – PM05 with Anna Gromańska, Marcin Michalski and Swee Huang Hustedt Teo
In this episode, we talk about:
- Digital marketing has evolved to become wizardry! (08:31)
- Affiliate marketing + Human relationships = Partner marketing (19:42)
- Are marketers simply unmotivated to switch from last-click? (23:58)
- Cube Group’s multi-touch attribution technology (31:46)
Digital marketing has evolved to become wizardry!
Marketing seems to be simpler in the past due to fewer channels and shorter customer journeys. With the myriad of channels, devices and touchpoints, nobody can be 100% sure that they are making the right choice. However, there are ever more technologies available that marketers can make use of these tools for their magic – they just need to pick the right one out of the overwhelming pool of options, know how to use them and build strategies around them.
Affiliate marketing + Human relationships = Partner marketing
The problem with affiliate marketing is its poor PR when it comes to fraud. There’s also a lack of acknowledgement of affiliates as humans, thereby leading to the loss of the human touch. Partner marketing is the new form of bringing back the focus of these affiliates as people and the need to work on these relationships.
Are marketers simply unmotivated to switch from last-click?
Many still use last-click because they are either not informed with the reasons why they shouldn’t use this easy-to-use attribution model, not motivated due to business goals, or unaware of or unable to switch to the available technological options. There is a strong need to educate the market on this, or it will continue to be detrimental to partner relations!
Cube Group’s multi-touch attribution technology
Known to the Polish market as Smart Attribution, Cube Group shares more on what their attribution technology, how it is different from standard models like u-shape and linear models, as well as why it is crucial for marketers to use it to understand their cost of sale as well as to nurture long-term relationships with their partners.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] Welcome to #partnermarketing the podcast with Ingenious Technologies. My name is Swee Huang Hustedt-Teo. I’m Marketing Manager here. And you heard this right – this podcast is in English, because we have two very special guests for you today. Both of them are from Cube Group, which is the leading performance marketing agency in Poland. They’re an extremely innovative agency and they are valued clients of ours, and we’d love to hear from them what they think the most important skills of marketers today, how important it is to see affiliates as humans, as well as how to make attribution a little fairer to these humans by moving away from last click.
Ladies first, so I will start with Anna Gromańska. She started her career in affiliate marketing way back then in 2011 as Junior Affiliate Specialist at TradeTracker and she’s come a long way. Today, she’s Publishing and Innovations Director at Cube Group. She has been a speaker at multiple events from creating multi channel affiliate programs to attribution and understanding cost of sale with machine learning. She knows what she’s talking about. Welcome, Anna.
[Anna Gromańska] Hi. Hi. Hello everyone. It’s a pleasure to be here today with you guys.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] It’s a pleasure to have you!
And our second guest: We have Marcin Michalski. He has worked his way up in Cube Group – from Account Director to Board Member today. And he is also a founder and main hacker of a blog and podcast called Marketing Hacker. This is about digital marketing and strategy, sales funnels, and so much more. He is also an author of over 100 articles about performance marketing, digital marketing, future in marketing. He is a speaker at many, many conferences. He was part of the jury at international performance marketing awards, which was hosted by PerformanceIn. Welcome, Marcin!
[Marcin Michalski] Hello. Nice to meet you.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] You both work at Cube Group, which is the leading performance marketing agency in Poland. And today, Cube Group runs campaigns in 50 markets with over 200 advertisers and over 20,000 publishers, bloggers, influencers and email database owners. Can you tell us in summary what does Cube Group do and what makes it different from others?
[Anna Gromańska] Sure. Cube Group has a quite long history. They started in 2006. We’ve always been very close to performance marketing. We actually grew from search engine marketing. But today we have one of the biggest portfolios of inhouse digital services, because during this evolution or this transformation which we did, we always thought it’s better to do the job by ourselves than to just be a middleman between the client and the publisher. So that’s what we believe – if we want to do the job properly, we just have to do it by ourselves because then we have control.
And I think it worked because we still have clients who started with us back in the days in 2006, 2007. So I think that’s the biggest proof that it works. But in the last few years, we changed a lot – from a typical digital agency to a technology like a martech. We see that this is a big deal now. We even recently got a grant from the EU for developing our customer data platform, which contains technology based on machine learning. We also cooperate with some scientists from the Technical University of Gdańsk. This is what we do now. And that’s how we see the future. We really believe that technology in marketing is something that is going to be growing and will be allowing us to get even better results.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] That is definitely different from the other agencies.
[Marcin Michalski] Yeah, exactly. I agree that our future is martech and only martech, because we believe that everything else should be automated by machines and artificial intelligence.
[Anna Gromańska] Will robots take my job – there’s a website like that. That’s really scary. You can type your profession and they will tell you how possible it is that robots will take your job in the future. Yeah, because automation is everywhere. And in marketing, for sure.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] Before robots take our jobs, at least I get to speak to you guys and ask you a few more questions. You know, the podcast that we’ve been running is in German because we focus on the German market. And that’s why I’m curious: Is there anything peculiar about the Polish market?
[Anna Gromańska] I would definitely say, we have smaller budgets in the polish market and that’s just how it is. Most of our clients in the Polish market, they really, really value every Zloty they spend on marketing. As the budgets are not as big, it has to be extremely effective and that’s what they expect from us. Because of that, sometimes the clients are not so likely to risk and try some new things because they are afraid that they’re gonna lose a bit of the budget. So I think this is something which sometimes stops us from doing really good campaigns because clients are more apprehensive.
[Marcin Michalski] I remember the situation on some international trade shows from our digital marketing branch that we were asking the technology provider or something specific about attribution and they were very surprised because we are the only agency in Europe with such huge demands when it comes to performance and attribution. We know it’s very important. And we knew it a few years ago, when nobody was ready for that. For us, it was like, whoa – we are just an agency from Poland, which is not the biggest digital marketing market in Europe. We thought that the market was ready for such sophisticated solutions, but it wasn’t.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] It is really very forward thinking of you. From our experience, there is a stereotype that agencies don’t see the importance of having the best technology or having sophisticated attribution that really matches their needs. But we will come to attribution in just a minute.
I would like to ask the both of you in the digital marketing arena first, because you both have many, many years of experience. So this is the big question. What changes have you observed over the years?
[Marcin Michalski] I think that everything is getting more difficult and more sophisticated. I remember the times when customer journeys were very easy. 10 years ago, even display advertising was very successful. Just one or maximum two devices – and the decision was made quickly. Nowadays it’s impossible. Digital marketing is more like wizardry. You can use a lot of sophisticated softwares, but you will never be convinced that it’s really the best decision you can make. So, from my perspective, it will be more difficult in the future.
[Anna Gromańska] On the other hand, we as an agency have more and more possibilities. Look at the options for targeting now. You can target a very specific audience when you do programmatic buying. You can track the whole conversion journey. You have technologies, which allows that. You can have dynamic creatives which will adjust itself to the user, based on his previous search history. So I think the options are almost unlimited now.
The only thing which you need to know is how to use the tools and how to build the strategy. This can be a bit overwhelming. Because if you have how many options, it’s even more difficult than when you have just two options.
The other thing is the competition is growing all the time. There are so many young businesses starting now. You don’t need to have a physical office or a physical product anymore. So, the hunger for digital marketing will be growing. There are ever more people who have a really brilliant idea, how to use all those possibilities and to create amazing strategies. So you really have to be updated everyday with everything which is happening. So I think that’s something which has big advantages and disadvantages, because you really have to keep up with all this stuff.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] So the wizard has many tools available. They just have to pick the right one.
[Anna Gromańska] Indeed.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] You guys work with a lot of eCommerce players. How do you think eCommerce players have adapted to this change? Or rather, have they adapted?
[Anna Gromańska] Definitely some of them are adapted, but a lot of them are not adapting and they’re just disappearing. That’s just how it is. Of course, those who are smart are updated with the newest trends and technologies and they are adapting to them. This approach where you just do search engine marketing campaign to drive traffic to your store is not enough. This kind of approach was okay a few years ago, but now you really have to build this multi channel experience for the user to make sure that he will buy from your store at your own e-commerce – and will come back to you. So this is not just about driving the user to sale, but the biggest challenge now is to keep this client with you for the future. So I think those e-commerce players who have adapted for this retention stage of the customer journey really are winners now.
[Marcin Michalski] Lifetime value is very important. We decided a few years ago to switch our agency from just doing prospecting to thinking about how to grow the lifetime value of the customer. Because we believe in business models based on lifetime value, not just one-time purchase.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] Marcin, you told me in a chat earlier that you said one of the biggest changes you have observed is that media buying skills is no longer important today but rather the communication skills. Why do you say so?
[Marcin Michalski] I think there is one simple answer for that question: Machine learning. Because the most important media are managed by algorithms and artificial intelligence. You cannot make any media optimization tricks. You cannot negotiate the prices because everything’s now based on real-time bidding. The biggest space like Google and Facebook and now for example TikTok – everything is managed by algorithms. Of course you can choose the target group and a few easy setups, but most of the media decisions are automated.
Nowadays you have to be, in my opinion, attractive for customers. If you are attractive, if you have a really good offer, the algorithm will find the right target group for you. So, from our experience, your communication and offer will determine how big your potential target group will be. So there is no space for media wizards. Instead, there is space for communication wizards.
[Anna Gromańska] Communication and media wizards. They are actually combined.
[Marcin Michalski] Yes, but most of the media, as I said, is managed by algorithms.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] You said that communication is more important to make it attractive. How do you think communication can be made attractive?
[Marcin Michalski] It’s the old marketing stuff. You should do the right job with your offer, with your communication, with your copywriting to be attractive to your customers. If you are not engaging as a brand, if you don’t have the right marketing message, you will lose because your media will be more and more expensive. Your CPC and CPA will be very, very expensive and algorithms even, wouldn’t find a good target group for you.
So that’s why I think the marketing now is more sophisticated, especially for e-commerce. I remember the times, like 10 years ago, when there was space for media wizards. At that time, if I am a wizard of Google AdWords, and I can optimize the campaign, I am a successful guy because I am selling and running successfully e-commerce. But right now, no, it’s not enough.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] And you were talking about CPA. So answer this, CPA is usually known in the affiliate marketing realm. Is affiliate marketing old school?
[Marcin Michalski] I think, yes. We can say that affiliate marketing is old school because there is nothing managed by AI or machine learning. You cannot add it up as you want, like Google or Facebook, because you are still depending on something very old, but very important: Human relationships. And we are also doing this with successes. Of course we can add some technology and automation when it comes to manage the affiliate programs and customer journey. So we are doing some innovation with this area, but Anna will say more about it.
[Anna Gromańska] I would not agree that affiliate marketing is old school. It has been on the market for a long time, but it doesn’t mean it’s old school. From my perspective, we have something new in affiliate marketing all the time. When I started in affiliate marketing, we mostly have been focusing on CPI campaigns and just generating leads for finance or test drives for car companies. And then, this e-commerce boom started and we started to have publishers who could work on CPS-basis. Before, that would have sounded unreal.
And we had this crazy stuff with voucher websites. They’ve become very popular. Now, we’ve got cashback websites. And the newest thing is that a lot of companies that sell anything find out that they can also use affiliate marketing. So we have more and more partners now, who are not actually typical publishers, but they have a database of customers. And they’re trying to get more money out of those customers by referring other products or services. So I don’t think it’s old school. It’s just changing and the people will find a new way. Because affiliate marketing is just basically referring some products or services to someone else. The methods are unlimited, we need to just find a new one.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] So you think it’s not old school cause there are so many new things happening with the market, like with tracking, ad blocking on browsers and the way people are shopping these days. Do you think affiliate marketing is innovating fast enough to catch up with the trends?
[Anna Gromańska] You said, about the changes like ad blocking and also cookie blocking, where the browsers stop supporting cookies and stuff. Of course, those changes are not positive for the affiliate market, because it’s a lot of changes. But I think at the end of the day, forcing some changes and some improvement is actually something good. I really believe that affiliate marketing is quite a big market. And there is a demand for affiliate marketing. If there’s demand, the market growth will still be there. If there’re still advertisers who wants to do affiliate marketing, there will be companies who will manage the situation with all this cookieless tracking and stuff like that, and offer affiliate marketing to clients. So I don’t think we have a crisis with affiliate marketing. Of course it’s changing, but everything needs to change and develop all the time. I think we’re going towards a good direction. Even from our perspective, we’ve gotten so many queries for affiliate campaigns, lately especially since the pandemic because everyone wants to do performance-based marketing, where they just have to pay for certain results.
[Marcin Michalski] About the tracking problems, I predict there will be some problems with the tracking because of the European GDPR. We can observe that traditional tracking measures don’t work nowadays. In Poland, affiliate marketing means partner marketing. So I think we need to redefine partner marketing without algorithms, because personally, I can’t see any space here for any algorithm when it comes to recruiting publishers, for example. It will be and it should be with a human touch. Human relationships, I don’t believe, can be changed with algorithms and AI.
[Anna Gromańska] Yeah, because still it’s like, it’s sort of referring. When we refer something to someone, it’s hard to optimize this kind of relationship. It has to be done by humans. And that’s true.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] The only difference between affiliate marketing and partner marketing is just a renaming to make it more obvious that there is a focus on this human touch and relationships. Right?
[Marcin Michalski] I think we need to say something about affiliate marketing’s PR. Understand now, why we are saying partner marketing instead of affiliate marketing. Because of the last-click attribution model, we’ve observed a few years ago, some advertisers lost a lot of money because of fraudulent affiliates. Renaming it to partner marketing is the best idea for the whole industry.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] There was the keyword that you mentioned „last-click“. Do you think it’s really still a problem in partner marketing?
[Anna Gromańska] Oh my God. Of course. You know, I would probably have said the same sentence three years ago. And three years after we are here talking and yeah, it still is a huge problem. Most of the clients don’t want to maybe even understand that this is not the way it should be. But I think the biggest problem is because affiliate marketing and partner marketing are such a safe option for marketers because they just pay for the results. So when you’re trying to persuade them that maybe last-click is not the best option, they don’t really have time to listen to that.
I would say they prefer to focus on, I don’t know, a Google campaign or Facebook campaigns because there are budgets in CPC. If they’re not gonna have control over all the budgets, they’re gonna lose a lot of money. And in CPS, it’s easy because you don’t have to pay at the end because you can still reject transactions. So I think that’s why the marketers feel very safe about affiliate marketing and they don’t pay too much attention.
And, that’s a problem because if they would, if they would like to listen and they would like to make some changes they could really make this channel grow a lot – and become one of the most important channels in the media mix. I think the biggest problem here is approach, and still last-click is the most popular attribution model in affiliate marketing unfortunately.
[Marcin Michalski] Yeah, I can agree that marketers are not motivated to use other models and sometimes they don’t even have enough knowledge about this problem and why it’s wrong. And they don’t have the right technological solutions. I think it’s a more sophisticated problem. Attribution is a huge buzzword from years, but there were no good solutions on the market for that then. There was a really expensive solution from Google, but not for affiliate marketing. So I think the most important problem after that approach, what Anna said, was the lack of tech solutions.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] That’s really interesting because I think five years ago, I already started reading articles about why attribution is so important, why we should start moving away from last-click and I guess when they started writing these articles there were already technological options available.
[Anna Gromańska] This is funny. You’ve read a lot of articles because there are certain companies who are trying to push it because they know this is the good way. But the market needs to be ready and the client needs to be ready. Because what are we going to say? This is the right way to do it? If the client will not believe that this is the way to do it, we can talk and talk and talk. Even if you have a product but no one wants to buy it, you know, publish thousands of articles about this product and you’re still never going to sell this product. So, the client needs to be ready.
But a lot of companies did a lot to educate the market. But it’s definitely still not enough. I would say still probably 80% of the affiliate campaigns are run on last-click attribution. I would even risk to say globally, because this is so the leading attribution model.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] Wow, 80% globally. Why do you worry about attribution as an agency?
[Anna Gromańska] Because we know that if you want, if you want to flourish, especially in affiliate marketing / partner marketing, you need to change the approach. Last-click was good, at a certain point – 10 years back, last-click was actually the perfect solution because, in affiliate marketing and in general, in marketing, we didn’t have so many channels. You didn’t have so many touch points for each user before the conversion. And that was easy. So you can really say that, okay, this guy clicked here in the emailing campaign. And then, he bought something or he filled the form.
But nowadays you have so many touch points – and we know if you don’t push traffic at the beginning of the sales funnel, you’re not going to get very much out of this funnel. So, this is exactly what’s happening in affiliate marketing. If you just pay publishers who are usually closing the customer journey – so voucher publishers, cashback publishers, those publishers are able to earn on CPS. But if we ask our clients, what kind of publishers, what kind of partners they would like to have in a food campaigns, they think oh, those content websites, which publish articles and make inspiration for our potential clients, like bloggers, influencers, email marketing. But guys, it’s not possible, if you’re going to pay only the last click, those publishers will never get money for the work they did for you. So, it has to be understood in affiliate marketing, that both the client and the publishers need to be happy, not just the clients.
[Marcin Michalski] I think the keyword Anna said is sales funnel. Other types of publishers are opening the sales funnel and other types are closing the funnel. We have a lot of devices on as well, so in some industries, your sales funnel is opened on mobile and closed on desktop. This is also a problem for affiliate marketing. How do I track this? How do I fill the gap between the mobile and the desktop? How do I connect those customer journeys? That’s why we care about attribution and innovative tracking solutions.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] It’s no secret that Ingenious Technologies and Cube Group work together. We even worked on a special project together, which is related to this. It is known to the Polish market as Smart Attribution. Can you tell us a little bit more about it?
[Anna Gromańska] This is kind of my baby. So, let’s start from the beginning. A few years back, we started to look for a new tracking solution for our affiliate networks and for our performance campaigns. Because our technology wasn’t enough and we knew back in the days that we want to do attribution in affiliate marketing. So we did a lot of research. We spoke with like 30 technology providers, because we’ve been looking for very specific features and it’s a long journey of looking for a perfect technology and ended up with Ingenious Technologies.
And because you guys have most of the features we wanted to have and we also discussed that we want to create this product, which will be able to attribute the commission between the different publishers on the one customer journey. And at this point, that was three years ago, you guys didn’t have this specific feature done yet, but you’ve been open to collaborate with us to create this option. So that’s how this project started. After a few months of working together, you guys finished the feature and you call it multi-touch attribution. We, on the Polish market, named it Smart Attribution.
It’s a product with a technology which allows distributing the commission to all the affiliate publishers who are on the customer journey. But not only that. From my perspective, this is one thing, but the crucial thing is actually combining affiliate marketing with other channels. That’s what usually happens. Affiliate marketing is often tracked with separate technologies and we never know how it actually interacts with other channels which are used by the marketer, like Google, Facebook, I newsletters and stuff like that. Smart Attribution is something that tracks all the touchpoints on the customer journey and allows you to bear those costs in mind. The system attributes the CPS commission and also considers the costs of those other paid channels.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] There is this standard multitouch attribution in the market, which is a linear or U shaped attribution model. What makes smart attribution different from it?
[Anna Gromańska] Smart Attribution gives you all the flexibility you can imagine. All the ideas you have in your head are probably possible to create with Smart Attribution. You can give a slightly higher commission to a certain partner. You can give a higher or lower commission to a certain group of partners. You can also say, Oh, if this partner starts the customer journey this time, pay him more commission, but if there’s another channel along the customer journey, don’t pay him. The possibilities are really endless and it’s just about your needs and what you want to achieve. You can create whatever you want with Smart Attribution. At the end of the day, it is just about paying certain partners enough to motivate them to work for you. And if they work for you well, if they generate sales or any other KPIs you expect from them, then that just makes sense, right?
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] That makes total sense. I think it’s super exciting what smart attribution does. That means one of your main priorities right now is to educate the market right?
[Anna Gromańska] Yes. And this is a big challenge, especially because we launched Smart Attribution in quite a difficult time – at the beginning or just before the pandemic started. We had some plans for promoting the product and going to speak about this. But everyone suddenly had to focus on day-to-day business because of the pandemic. And people didn’t really want to talk about something like needing technology because they need to secure the basics for the business. But we hope that now it’s going to be slowly time to get back to that and finally give a kick to Smart Attribution.
[Marcin Michalski] I think we need some time to educate the markets and check it.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] In our previous call, we also talked about how affiliate marketing was stopped during this pandemic. Do you think that was a mistake?
[Anna Gromańska] It’s hard to say for me because I don’t see the numbers. So I don’t know for those who stopped campaigns, it was a good choice for them or not.
[Marcin Michalski] I think some of our clients also had problems with logistics. It’s not about the sale, but the logistics, and whether they were able to send goods out on time or not.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] I see. So they had to take a break anyway.
[Marcin Michalski] Yeah. In my opinion, stopping affiliate marketing is never a good idea because you need to make the connection with affiliates again and ask them if they can turn on the campaign again. Sometimes they say no, I can’t, because I found a better advertiser than you. That’s why, stopping. affiliate marketing is always a bad idea.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] It’s true. This reminds me of one of the podcasts that we had before with Tobias. He mentioned that a lot of people forget that with partner marketing, it’s a relationship that you have with your partner. It’s not like a Google ad where you can turn on and off. It’s a person that you work with and it’s not the best idea to just turn on and off, because you would have ruined your relationship a little bit.
[Marcin Michalski] But you know most advertisers can’t understand that it’s not the same channel as Facebook or Google. Most of them think with affiliate marketing it’s the same as with Google or Facebook or a programmatic channel. And I think we need to change it. And it’s our job to educate the market on – let’s call it – new-age affiliate marketing.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] Anna, you’ve spoken at previous events on understanding the cost of sales. Do you think partner marketers understand the cost of sale enough as a KPI?
[Anna Gromańska] You mean partners or clients?
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] Clients.
[Anna Gromańska] I think the clients look at the cost of sale, but they usually look in the wrong places. Because they check the cost of sale usually based on the last week. And they combine all the data from Google analytics and they say, Oh, from search, we have a thousand sales and that costs us a thousand euros. So the cost of sale is one Euro. But it’s not true. Because the actual cost of sales is the cost of all the touch points and all the paid channels that lead to those sales. And this is the way it should be considered. And that’s what Smart Attribution actually is doing. We track all the paid channels and based on all the paid channels, and at the end we can calculate the commission that we can pay publishers.
So we actually operate on a total holistic cost of the customer of the sale, and of this customer journey. I think that’s something which is very attractive for the clients, because then you can really have power over that. You can then keep this cost of sale on a certain level.
[Marcin Michalski] Anna said something very, very important because I think it’s the biggest problem of current digital marketing. Nobody knows the real cost of CPA. Because if you don’t have the right tool, you cannot measure it. And without the right tool, you cannot make the right decision where to put the money on the table, which media you should cut and on which media you should increase your budget. It’s very strange that nobody’s saying anything about that – that you don’t know the real cost of your CPA without the right tool. And Google analytics is not the right tool because you are not measuring the cost in this store.
And you have a second tool, which is Google DoubleClick, where you have attribution, but still there is no cost information. You cannot manage costs at real time. That’s why I think this is a huge issue with current digital marketing. And I think with your solution, it’s possible to calculate the real cost of conversions.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] That is also what we hoped to achieve. It’s also our part to try to educate the market, which is also one of the reasons why we set up this podcast in the first place – to find out what everybody thinks about partner marketing, what people who are interested in partner marketing should start thinking about.
At the end of every podcast, we ask everybody to complete the sentence: To me partner marketing means. Marcin, do you want to start?
[Marcin Michalski] Yes, to me partner marketing means human relationships.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] Short and sweet.
[Anna Gromańska] To me, partner marketing means finding the ways to make two sides of the table work together and reach their goals. Because that’s what it is. A client wants to generate sales. And a publisher or partner wants to generate some kind of revenue, and can get this revenue if the sales is generated. So, for me, it’s just like working together hand by hand to reach sometimes completely different goals, but still reach them together.
[Swee Huang Hustedt Teo] Thank you very much for your answers and for your time today, Anna and Marcin. And thank you also to the listeners for listening. Before robots take over our jobs, we have to work on educating the market.
And if you liked this podcast, please like, share or subscribe to our podcast. That will be the best compliment for us. And that’s it. Thank you very much.